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    Post by Jet Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:52 pm

    Jec wrote:Muslims regressed... When Islam rose and conquered north africa and Spain it was because they were extremely progressive and illustrious... Baghdad was the capital of knowledge... Almost all science is arabic... Astronomy and Algebra, as their name suggest are of arabic origin, heck... the numerals we use: 1,2,3,4,5....,etc.. were given to us by the muslims.... When fundamentalism took hold of the middle east, combined with western intervention did we see a muslim world fall into a dark age. Western intervention can be remedied fast, in fact it's almost starting to happen... their fundamentalism... not so much...
    Yes I know that. Thats the point im trying to make. There are multiple reasons why fundamentalism is so prominent. If the west was invaded, occupied, governments installed with puppet rulers to advance foreign interests, had its resources stolen over multiple decades, and terrorized with drones on a daily basis we would probably see more extremists on our side committing acts of terror against them. If you put people in a position where they dont see a future for their lives, theyll gravitate towards fear and cling to old values. That brings all kinds of complications.


    Last edited by Jet on Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post by Jet Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:54 pm

    Jec wrote:He's voiced by this guy

    Show Discussions [Tv, Tv Tv, Tv, Sports, Sports, Sports, Call of duty, Dog Edition] - Page 19 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9KM2vZvfG7-AoCzddiE_5dX06L9fxUaDl53xsTvCr_Abn2RvV
    SLC Punk
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    Post by Jec Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:49 am

    Jet wrote:
    Jec wrote:Muslims regressed... When Islam rose and conquered north africa and Spain it was because they were extremely progressive and illustrious... Baghdad was the capital of knowledge... Almost all science is arabic... Astronomy and Algebra, as their name suggest are of arabic origin, heck... the numerals we use: 1,2,3,4,5....,etc.. were given to us by the muslims.... When fundamentalism took hold of the middle east, combined with western intervention did we see a muslim world fall into a dark age. Western intervention can be remedied fast, in fact it's almost starting to happen... their fundamentalism... not so much...
    Yes I know that. Thats the point im trying to make. There are multiple reasons why fundamentalism is so prominent. If the west was invaded, occupied, governments installed with puppet rulers to advance foreign interests, had its resources stolen over multiple decades, and terrorized with drones on a daily basis we would probably see more extremists on our side committing acts of terror against them. If you put people in a position where they dont see a future for their lives, theyll gravitate towards fear and cling to old values. That brings all kinds of complications.

    I'd almost buy that as the ultimate answer and place no blame on Islam if for example, south east asia and muslim comunities in India weren't just as crazy as the ones in the middle east.
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    Post by Jet Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:58 am

    Well there should be a degree of criticism but in my view its all the same
    Spoiler:
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    Post by Jec Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:04 pm

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    Post by Jet Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:23 pm

    Its all cyclical.
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    Post by Jec Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:56 pm

    it's all rubbish...can't believe the amount of hate Maher and Harris have been receiving, considering when Harris's arguments are so level headed. Affleck didn't even want to listen to anyone but himself.

    Here's the debate for context



    http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/can-liberalism-be-saved-from-itself
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    Post by Jet Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:19 pm

    Spoiler:

    Saw the episode, got hbo.
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    Post by Jec Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:33 pm

    I posted the video if anyone else wanted to see it, I know you saw it...

    Sam Harris's blog entry is a good read.
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    Post by Jet Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:00 pm

    It was a good read. Id really like to see Harris debate this with Greenwald though. The last time the subject came up he schooled maher on the subject.
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    Post by Eri Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:05 pm

    Fleshing out the facts are gonna give you a bad face. Ben seems to be taking the absolute righteous perspective which in most cases from my experience, being on both sides, leads avoiding the fine details in arguments.

    i do see where the other two are coming from but i think they are exaggerating the stats.
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    Post by Jet Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:56 pm

    Yup.
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    Post by Jet Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:59 pm

    Oh wow zaheer used the deprivation of air method I mentioned back in the last airbender, right down to the spherical shape. Episode even had a sandshark. Long live the queen indeed.
    ---

    Now the korra season 3 finale is about to begin. With my router back up ill be able to finally watch korra on premiere again.
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    Post by Jec Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:25 pm

    Except Mahers and Harris stats are not exaggerated...
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    Post by Eri Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:04 pm

    i said they are exaggerating the stats
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    Post by Jet Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:14 pm

    Mhm.

    Also Jinoras haircut was so bad it made korra cry
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    Post by Jec Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:20 pm

    Jet wrote:Oh wow zaheer used the deprivation of air method I mentioned back in the last airbender, right down to the spherical shape. Episode even had a sandshark. Long live the queen indeed.
    ---

    Now the korra season 3 finale is about to begin. With my router back up ill be able to finally watch korra on premiere again.

    brutal death is brutal

    Eri wrote:i said they are exaggerating the stats

    But... they weren't...

    Jet wrote:Mhm.

    Also Jinoras haircut was so bad it made korra cry

    Looks like Aang.
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    Post by Eri Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:49 pm

    Yea but lets say the stats were accurate (cuz i didnt do the research). They use that to justify that all muslism are extremist. There is truth in what batman says.
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    Post by Jet Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:15 pm

    Plus I dont think theres much good to be had in giving power to the same people who ascribe to the philosophy that is partially responsible for the current mess. It shouldnt be taboo to critize religion(it definitely shouldnt result in death) but its not particularly courageous in this case. Nor something actual reformers wouldnt already be aware of and be seeking to resolve.

    http://tragicfarce.com/2013/04/24/harris-v-greenwald-is-there-an-anti-islam-bias-in-new-atheism/?buffer_share=8bc9f&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer%253A%2520%2540ChristofPierson%2520on%2520twitter
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    Post by Jec Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:03 am

    Eri wrote:Yea but lets say the stats were accurate (cuz i didnt do the research). They use that to justify that all muslism are extremist. There is truth in what batman says.

    They didn't say all muslims are extremists, only that most believe in bad ideas such as death for apostasy and female genital mutilation which as the stats show, is true, and therefore they simply reject those ideas and consider them bad.

    Malala, a muslim reformist just won the peace prize btw...
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    Post by Chakramaster Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:35 am

    Yeah exactly. Blaming an entire race for the actions of a few is terrible. It's chaos really...to blame everyone just for what evil some do. It's things like killings going on with ISIS or guns in general people are against just for what these people are against, but you can't blame everyone in that religion or anyone with a gun. Not everyone takes things into their own action to kill in the name of their religion or kills someone just because they can.
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    Post by Jec Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:19 pm

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    Post by Jet Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:32 pm

    Jec wrote:
    Eri wrote:Yea but lets say the stats were accurate (cuz i didnt do the research). They use that to justify that all muslism are extremist. There is truth in what batman says.

    They didn't say all muslims are extremists, only that most believe in bad ideas such as death for apostasy and female genital mutilation which as the stats show, is true, and therefore they simply reject those ideas and consider them bad.

    Malala, a muslim reformist just won the peace prize btw...
    ideas which we support through the sale of arms
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    Post by Jec Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:12 pm

    Pft... nigga please... They stone apostates...

    tonight's bill maher has to be good. I'm sure he'll address the drama.
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    Post by Jet Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:20 pm

    Jec wrote:Pft... nigga please... They stone apostates...

    tonight's bill maher has to be good. I'm sure he'll address the drama.
    and those that do that are monsters. But without painting the complete picture you do a disservice to those seeking reform. And no real time tonight.

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